I-84 Complaints

[TomH]

Yeah Fez and Franky, this is my team, and I enjoy playing with you guys whenever we get down to SLC. As for why I never responded to this thread, I thought it was unprofessional of Alan to post this publicly without getting our side of the story. I did respond to him in a PM though. Here is what i said:

Allen you have been given a load of crap. Maybe you should get a different side of the story before you start pointing fingers. All you are doing is spreading hearsay.

Show me one of us "dye kids" who wipes. Just one. Pretty please. You can't because we don't. Over half the time we play down there the "rec" players want to play knees and elbows, gun shots don't count, and even though we don't like it we do it just to play.

Excessive overshooting? Intentionally, no. I'll admit I do shoot a lot of paint, it's easy to do with my DM5, but as soon as I see a ball break or a hand go up I stop shooting. The problem is, sometimes there are 5 other balls still on the way. Do I shoot a player after they call themselves out? No.

"Staying in games after they are out". Well when the "rec" players insist on playing knees and elbows, they need to remember that anything below the knee or elbow doesn't count. If anyone in the group I play with is hit, they leave. The only people I have seen play on after they are hit, are some of the people who hang out with Deray.

"Vandalism of rec players cars". I'm not really sure what you mean here. If you mean slashing tires, or keying cars then you aren't talking about us. If you mean a car getting paint on it accidently, then maybe. My suggestion then is to not park the vehicle right along the fence line, which is used as a boundary line during games. My van has been shot many times, both outside and in, and you don't hear me whining. It's a chance I take when I park right down by the fence, I understand that and accept the consequences of my actions.

As for fights, I have never seen a fight at the river. Ever. I have seen heated verbal exchanges, but they are generally defused rapidly. The only person in our group who has ever gotten into a "bad" argument is Chris, and honestly I don't blame him for getting excited when a player who was clearly out, decides to unload a hopper on him from less than 10 feet away.

Has my group ever shot a car or road sign? No and we are usually the ones to spend our time picking up the trash that your precious "rec" players leave lying around. There hasn't been a single weekend when I haven't taken out more trash than I brought in with me. Our group of "misfits" is always willing to help people who's guns are broken, get their guns chrono'd (we have about 5 chronos in our group), give (not sell, give) them batteries when theirs' die, provide air and CO2 fills, and sell them paint if they shoot more than they originally planned. I have personally fixed over 20 guns down there for no charge when I would honestly rather be playing paintball.


The people you are getting complaints from are probably the same ones who ask to borrow our chrono, or a squeegee, or to fix their tippman/Spyder/cocker and then forget to say thank you.

[Allen Turner]

Wiley,
I did not bring up this thread to "argue" with anyone. I posted the complaints I had been recieveing hoping to raise some awareness by the all involved about the perception of Rec Players who come to I-84.

Brandon,
If I was in paintball for Money then you are correct I would keep my mouth shut about this can of worms and not risk alienating the hardcore players who go to I-84. You many choose to take offense at my voicing the Rec Players complaints, thats your choice, it was not my intent. My concern is for the sport at all levels not just one clique or field. I feel that it is important to the growth of the sport that new players, rec players have a good experience so they keep playing paintball.

The first half of this year I just dismissed comments or complaints about I-84, until several older adults complained about treatment at I-84, and said "I wont go back there." It made me wonder what is going on that I was getting so many complaints when I have nothing to do with oragnizing games there. So the next time some one complained I started asking quesitons about what and who was the problem? The most rescent one was Jim who is a friend of mine, he was very specific and thats why I finally posted about this.

I dont know if you have read ALL my posts on this issue, I will repeat some of them here. In my opinion most of the players who go to I-84 are good players, I know most of the "Dye kids" and they are good guys. As I have previouisly posted most players go there and have a good attitude. The complaints seem to be a case of "a few bad apples spoiling the cart". If you are one of the guys helping new players and organizing games then I say Kudos! Lets work togher to improve things for all players.

The complaints I have recieved are NOT about just one group. The player who came in with cuts on his face and hands from a fight at I-84 got into it with someone in a Pegleg T shirt was his only description. I dont know who this guy clocked.

Here is the problem: If NO problems exist at I-84 then a guy like Jim who brought his 14 year old son with him to play some Rec ball would not have gotten into an altercation with one of "the dye kids" after getting heavily overshot at close range. After which he he unloaded the rest of his hopper into one of the "kids" in anger.


I beleive that much of the complaints boil down to the expectations of Rec Players vs Tournament players. For example:

In Rec play if you hit someone more than twice, thats overshooting.
Where as in Tournament thats expected.

Bonus Balling does not exist in a Rec play, where as it is common in Tournament play.

Lane-ing is a term that does not exist in Rec and if a Rec Player gets lanned especially with some of the super fast markers they are going to walk away feeling abused.

I really appreciate Ken, one of the Veterans who is part of this group. Who came in and discussed this issue with me and has volentered to help resolve any future complaints.

My suggestions are simple. The old Axiom about mixing Rec and Tournament is still true, its a bad mix.

If you want to Play agressive tournament style paintball then great there are lots of places and opportunities to Play other Tournament players.

Come join us in the UXPL, or go to Addicts on Thursdays and play with the other Tournament Players.

[Allen Turner]

Originally Posted by TomH

Yeah Fez and Franky, this is my team, and I enjoy playing with you guys whenever we get down to SLC. As for why I never responded to this thread, I thought it was unprofessional of Alan to post this publicly without getting our side of the story. I did respond to him in a PM though. Here is what i said:

Exactly back to my point and suggestions. Playing Tourney style in a Touney field works out great.

When you play Tourney Style with Rec players then tend to get irritated. Hence thier complaints to me..

In my opinion Its not a case of right or wrong but different expections.

[wileyc143]

Well put Allen, I am sorry if you mis interpeted me as saying that you were "arguing" about I-84. In my response to Peoplemower's first post I listed you as a "liazon" speaking for those people that had complained.

Sometimes hard issues like these need to be raised to the community so that we can raise the awarness level.

[TomH]

Originally Posted by Allen Turner

The most rescent one was Jim who is a friend of mine, he was very specific and thats why I finally posted about this.

Here is the problem: If NO problems exist at I-84 then a guy like Jim who brought his 14 year old son with him to play some Rec ball would not have gotten into an altercation with one of "the dye kids" about cheating and overshooting. During which he unloaded a hopper at close range into one of the "kids" in anger.

Sounds like the problem is your friend Jim who solves his problems by unloading a hopper on people.

[Ozma_adam]

Originally Posted by TomH

Sounds like the problem is your friend Jim who solves his problems by unloading a hopper on people.

now why are you trying to start a fight. lets not fight, allen didnt say anything bad about the dye kids all he said was there was a complaint.
and he wanted it to stop whoever it was. for his friend unloading a hopper on some man that wasnt right either

[wileyc143]

yep I agree with Ozama here. This thread isn't to start a fight Tom. unless thats what you want.

The bigger man will solve this peacefully.

[CHAPPY]

WoW! They sure dont have these kinds of problems were I'm at. The enemy dont over shoot. Hell they dont even shoot back. And when there hit they cant even wipe it. Hell they dont even try to wipe it. If they do get hit they get a thousand bucks and if they dont they get two thousand. And if there really good sportz they get to spend the night with the Enemy... for even more money...What a way to shoot those little round ballz filled with paint.
http://www.huntingforbambi.com

P.S. Greg PM me dude.

[Allen Turner]

Let me be very clear. My posting this issue was not intended as an attack on Tom, Brandon or any of the guys who play with them.

I was a bit frustrated when I made the first post, If I was offensive I appologize. I am just trying to relate what I have been told by Rec Players about thier perception at I-84.

Tom & the guys came to the UXPL July 3rd event and played very well! In fact they were in 1st place in points going into the Semi Finals, I enjoyed having them there and they played great!

Theye have great skills and would be fine playing with other teams who will be Rookie XPSL or Novice UXPL in 2005.

I belevie the Rec Players just have a different view of what a "Fair" game is when they go to the woods. I feel thats all this boils down to.

[Allen Turner]

Originally Posted by Ozma_adam

for his friend unloading a hopper on some man that wasnt right either

I agree his response was wrong. Jim said when he was overshot a close range he "lost it".