Spyder Rocking Trigger, Tournament Legal???

[Velocity1]

I just thought I would give my 2 cents on this issue. Rule 6.01 give some information on marker specifications, but if you read rule 6.02 there is a little clarification. That rule states (in its entirety):

"Trigger. A "trigger" is the moveable lever or button that comes in contact with the finger. The contacts of a switch are not a trigger. A trigger pull requires an exertion of force by the finger on the trigger and release of force by the finger on the trigger during every shooting cycle. Markers may shoot at any rate of fire, and may shoot any number of paintballs, provided that it shoots in semi auto or pump mode only. This means that no more than one paintball may be discharged during each shooting cycle of a trigger pull."

Ok, just because a trigger has 2 contact points (according to this rule) does not make it illegal. The rocking trigger (although curve shaped) does not make it illegal.

You have to walk a rocking trigger just like any other gun, and you have to exert force on each end of the trigger to fire a paintball. Even if you use one finger to rock it back and forth, you are still useing force for each individual end of the trigger to fire a paintball.

If for some reason this has been outlawed from tourneys, then I dont really understand why. I have shot one and it takes the same amount of force an exertion (if not a lot more) as any other trigger. I guess bounce would be the only thing in question.

I do agree with what was said earlier though, dont try to get any blowback marker going faster than 13-14 bps without any eye logic, fast loader, and a good hard shelled paint.

[paintballangelspeed]

I agree with you 100% , if you read the rules it does in fact make this trigger legal. Is there a Ref out there that could give us the defining answer though. Allen, anyone???

[paintballangelspeed]

Originally Posted by trigeek5

Ok, For your benefit. It is a "DOUBLE or ROCKING" trigger. 2 contact points. NPPL rule 6.01 explains. A marker may only have a single trigger. The rocking trigger is a double trigger. Has 2 contact points. Thus making it illegal.

Furthermore. If these were tourney legal. Dont you think ICD or WGP or the Timmy's would make better high end ones? think about it.

Once again the rule is "Contacts are NOT part of the Trigger" also there is a interview that talks with the head ref of the NPPL and he says they are legal, as long as both springs are equal in resistance. And just because a trigger rocks doesn't make it two triggers!!!

[cory]

Originally Posted by paintballangelspeed

Hey everybody,
Just a question I would like to throw out to the head ref that was at the pre-rookie event Friday night. He told myself and my teamate that the rocking trigger made by Kingman is illegal for tournament use. I would like to know where he got this information. Reading the Rules at the NPPL ( 6.02 ) they define a trigger as being a single piece that is excerted force to fire the marker and then the force is let off to fire the marker again. It also states that the contacts inside the marker are NOT part of the trigger. What I get from this, the Rocking Trigger is in fact Legal to use in the NPPL.
Any clarification would be great.
Thanks

My apologies for causing you confusion, that wasn’t my intent. Hopefully I can clear this up a little bit for you.

The rocking trigger has been at the center of discussion for a couple of years.

A few years ago (long before Kingmann produced a rocking trigger), people began producing custom rocking triggers themselves. At that time the head of the NPPL rules committee (I believe it was Bill Cookston) had stated that under no circumstances would a rocking trigger be allowed on an NPPL field. This started an argument that has lasted to this day.

Here are the current (2005) NPPL rules related to triggers:

6. Markers
6.01 Marker Specifications. Players may use a single, 68 caliber, pump or semi
automatic paintball marker, which consists of a single barrel and single trigger. All Paintball
Markers shall only operate in semi auto or pump mode and may not operate in other discharge
modes such as burst, enhanced trigger or fully automatic discharge mode during league play.
See ASTM F2272-03

6.02 Trigger. A “trigger” is the moveable lever or button that comes in contact with the
finger. The contacts of a switch are not a trigger. A trigger pull requires an exertion of force by
the finger on the trigger and a release of force by the finger on the trigger during every shooting
cycle. Markers may shoot at any rate of fire, and may shoot any number of paintballs, provided
that it shoots in semi auto or pump mode only. This means that no more than one paintball may
be discharged during each shooting cycle of a trigger pull.


Under 6.01 an “Enhanced trigger” is not allowed. Unfortunately the NPPL does not clearly define what an enhanced trigger pull is in the 2005 rules. Enhanced is commonly accepted as any of the burst and/or full auto modes that are available on boards.

Some people argue that an “enhanced trigger” is reached when extra switches are added to the trigger system. If this is the case, then the rocking system violates section 6.01.

Other argue that the rocking trigger violates 6.02 in that the force exerted by springs when releasing the top portion of the trigger begins to activate the second switch, and the release of the second switch begins the activation on the first switch. Because of this, the argument is made that the distinct pull and release of the trigger is never accomplished.

Another argument made is that the presence of two switches violates ASTM F2272-03 Standards, but I have NEVER read the standards and I'm not able to locate a copy now so I can not comment on the standard either way.

Trigger bounce is also a HUGE factor. There is something about the rocking trigger that makes them incredibly easy to set up for sweet spot bouncing to make the marker go pretty much full auto very easily.

All that aside, the one thing that stuck in my head was my discussions with NPPL judges and staff a couple of months ago. The staff had indicated that if the trigger was not a “traditional” type trigger then it would be disallowed. The rocking trigger definatly falls under a non-traditional trigger. I believe that the policy is to discourage the new laser triggers that are available for a limited number of markers. Keep in mind that the NPPL rules commitee can easily extend it to any kind of triggering system that they would like to that do not fall under the “traditional” label.

So the "official" word from the NPPL is that the rocking trigger is not allowed, but that was an old policy and was never officially written in the rules and I don't know how much they enforce it. However, the rules are written broad enough that interpretaion of the rules could easliy include the rocking trigger.

As to the comments between you and me; I was just trying to be friendly and help. The players for the prerookie event had indicated they wanted comments, direction and advice where they needed it. Since I was working the chrono, this was something I saw and could comment on. It obviously wasn’t a big deal to me or the UXPL because the marker was allowed on the field, as were the other 2 or 3 rocking triggers that were there.

If you were/are planning on moving on to things bigger and better than the UXPL, I simply pointed out a possible problem that you should be aware of, nothing more. Sorry if I caused you any heartburn.

[wile_e_coyote321]

Cory, thanks for fully defining and explaining this to us. Hopefully the NPPL will come out with a full and better undersatnding of the rocking triggers. But we do thank the UXPL for allowing us to play both days useing the one we had. We couldn't and still can't thank you enough for great time we had.

[Littlefoot]

Thanks Cory. I was also a little confused, but glad that everything is getting explained to us. We had questions before where one of our team mate plays with a rocking trigger. Now we know and hopefully NPPL does what coyote said. I am just glad we got to play.

[Allen Turner]

Thanks Cory.

The bottom line is that the NPPL does not allow Rocking Triggers therefore the UXPL will not allow them. We want to be playing our event by NPPL rules as close as possible.

Not every rule is clearly defined and that is one of the Reasons Cory and Myself played the Denver NPPL is so that we could have a full understanding of how the NPPL applies and enforces their own rules.

Some rules they adhere closely to and others they let slide.

..

[paintballangelspeed]

First thankyou for you explaination. Second you didn't cause any heartburn, I took tums. Third he just spent money on upgrading his spyder and everything we had heard was that it was legal, therefore being the captain of the team he asked me to look into it for him, that's all. But thanks for the explaination, but how do you explain the interview on the warpig website with the head ref of the NPPL, just a question not trying to cause anymore heartburn or anything.
😉

[Allen Turner]

Originally Posted by paintballangelspeed

First thankyou for you explaination. Second you didn't cause any heartburn, I took tums. Third he just spent money on upgrading his spyder and everything we had heard was that it was legal, therefore being the captain of the team he asked me to look into it for him, that's all. But thanks for the explaination, but how do you explain the interview on the warpig website with the head ref of the NPPL, just a question not trying to cause anymore heartburn or anything.
😉

Dave Zinkerman is not the Ultimate Ref for the NPPL.

I will email Dan Perez who is the Ultimate ref and get a clarification on this question, if he will answer.

Also Mason is right the double switch rocking trigger has a Serious bounce problem, which is a safety issue. If you put your finger in the right place that gun will take off and not stop until its out of air.

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[B.J.]

Originally Posted by Allen Turner

Not every rule is clearly defined and that is one of the Reasons Cory and Myself played the Denver NPPL is so that we could have a full understanding of how the NPPL applies and enforces their own rules.

..

It's TRUE I SEEN IT!!!!!!!!!!!!