12" Lapco bigshot VS 14" DYE Excel...My research/test results.

[R Downs]

You can also find these results under my other post at
http://www.a5og.net/forum/showthread.php?t=4691
but I thought id post them here too with new heading for people interested ion the bigshot vs excel that didnt look at my other post.

...............Thanks for al lthe help everyone. I did alot of online research and read hundreds of reviews and the reviews pretty much came out like this.

Teardrop wasnt even in the running. Dye Excel over the J&J about 80/20 and the 20% was mostly because ease of cleaning. I was pretty much set on the Excel until I started seeing stuff about the Lapco Bigshot. So I added it to my list and the reviews on it came out to about 70/30 for the bigshot. The drawback on the bigshot seeming to be it was louder than the Excel. But almost all said the 12" Bigshot was more accurate.
So, I ordered a Bigshot and for 53.99 shipped and of course the next day there appeared a 14" DYE Excel on ebay for 20.00 so I had to by it also. This past weekend they had both arrived so I tested them out. I found out a friend had just bought an A5 with an Egrip and Flatline so I borrowed his flatline so I could test the 3 barrels together.
For my test I used my shooting vise to hold the gun steady and a Pact Chronograph for all the stats. I shot 3 groups of 10 (with each of 3 kinds of balls) @ 60ft. and again at 45ft. with the Excel and the Bigshot and only 1 group of 10 with the flatline (at 60ft.) but it was so much more in-accurate than the other 2 and used so much more air I took it out of the lineup after the 1st group . Distance means nothing to me without accuracy.
Excel:
3 groups of 10 at 60ft using Heavy Metal
3 groups of 10 at 60ft using Pegball (a local brand)
3 groups of 10 at 60ft using RPS Premium (from a case I bought 4 years ago)
Bigshot:
3 groups of 10 at 60ft using Heavy Metal
3 groups of 10 at 60ft using Pegball (a local brand)
3 groups of 10 at 60ft using RPS Premium (from a case I bought 4 years ago)
Excel:
2 groups of 10 at 45ft using Heavy Metal
3 groups of 10 at 45ft using Pegball (a local brand)
2 groups of 10 at 45ft using RPS Premium (from a case I bought 4 years ago)
Bigshot:
2 groups of 10 at 45ft using Heavy Metal
3 groups of 10 at 45ft using Pegball (a local brand)
3 groups of 10 at 45ft using RPS Premium (from a case I bought 4 years ago)

I was going to post my results but yesterday while playing paintball for the 1st time with my new A5 I was given some Marbs to test out. I will test them tonight and post all the results tomorrow. From the testing I did allready I was surprised by the results. I'm curious how the Marbs do.
I was REALLY wanting to do the tests with CO2 versus HPA also but couldnt find an HPA tank to borrow. I'll have to do it all again once I get an HPA tank.
Stay tuned for all the results tomorrow.

********************

OK, heres my test results. (see PDF attachment)

Test procedure:
1)A5 sitting in my gun rest on a steady table.
2)Shooting through a Pact. Cronograph.
3)All tests were done using CO2 (couldnt find HPA to use)
4)I fired 1 shot, counted 1001,1002,1003,1004, 1005, fired again, and so on. (so all shots were fired 5 seconds apart.)
5) All groups were 10 shot groups.
6)I tested the Excel at 60ft in the evening in around 92 degree heat. All the other tests were done the next morning in around 78 degree heat (not sure if that made a difference or not)

What I gathered from my testing:
1)The Excel shot considerably better than the Bigshot at 60ft. ( Was it because of the 15 degree difference in temperature during the 60ft tests? Would the Bigshot have shot better at 60ft in the 92 degree temp too?)
2)The Bigshot shot slightly better than the Excel at 45ft.
3)The Excel shot just as good at 60ft as it did at 45ft (again, was it the difference in temp between the 2 tests that caused this?)
4)Didn't notice much difference in noise between the two but wasnt paying alot of attention to noise either.
5)The Bigshot is WAY easyier to clean than the Excel after a ball break (due to the Bigshot having sevral ports around the end of the barrel for about 1/2 inch lenght and the Excel having 4 rows of ports for half the lenght of the barrel.
6)The velocity using a given brand of balls stayed the pretty much the same no matter which barrel I was using (result= no need to adjust velocity when switching from 1 to the other)
7)I like the looks of the Bead-blasted Bigshot much better on the A5 than the Excel. Wish they made an Excel in Bead-blasted finish.
NOTES:
NOTE #1):With the Excel and Bigshot shooting right at 280fps. I switched to the stock barrel and it was shooting at Avg velocity of 238.8. With the Flatline it Averaged 265.9fps(result= It takes alot more air in the stock barrel and the Flatline to reach 280fps so less shots per tank.)
NOTE #2)Although the stock barrel was shooting much slower than the other 2 it still shot a 10 shot group that measured 5.5"x6.5" at 45 ft. at avg 238fps. I never turned it up to 280 to see what kind of groups it gave me there. (thats isnt even close to as terrible as I expected it to be)
NOTE #3)I was going to test the Flatline also at 60ft and 45 ft but by the time I finished the other 2 tests all I had left were my 4yr old RPS Premiums and while they my shoot pretty good out of a straight barrel, trying to roll these balls (a little lopsided from sitting untouched for 4 years)across the top of a Flatline barrel gave less testworthy results. I'll have to test it some other day I suppose.
NOTE #4) you will notice on the 45ft tests some barrels only shot 2 groups instead of 3. (Sorry, I was running low on balls and had to save some for the other test.)
NOTE #6) I was going to test Marbs but it turned out I didnt have enough to do any sort of real testing so I just shot them at the same 45 and 60 ft target freehand and they shot pretty much the same as the groups with the Pegball/Excel combo whether I shot from the Excel or the Bigshot. (So, it is possible I suppose that the difference in groups between the BS and the Excel at 60ft DID have something to do with the Temp???????

Interesting fact: (at least for the people in central utah that can get ahold of Pegball)
The Heavy Metal and RPS balls stained the target enough that it wouldnt come off even with scrubing. The pegball, allthough not quite as bright a paint (more of a dark purple) came right of when sprayed with a hose with almost no visible trace of there ever being paint there.

[R Downs]

**********Reply from Zer0 **********
Quote"
Interesting review. I have a couple of suggestions for the next time, though.

1. Try using better paint. You'll be amazed at how the results will change. Heavy Metal, Pegleg Paintball's own paint brand, and 4 year old PMI Premium probably affected your test horribly.

2. Sounds like you're using unregulated CO2 for this test? Use HPA and you'll get better results. At 60 feet my flatline can shoot through 3 inch cracks at our local field's castle, and that's when I'm running regulated CO2. The temperature variation would affect the performance of CO2.

3. Learn to use the flatline. As repeated by numerous others on this board, it has a steep learning curve. Shooting bad paint in a flatline the first time you use it makes it a negative experience.

You deserve rep for effort on this one, try to even out the field when performing your tests. Get to know the flatline and you'll love it. Thanks for the review.
"end Qoute

[R Downs]

****My Reply to Zer0****
Thanks Zer0,

1)You are absolutely correct on the paint issue. I would Imagine with better paint my groups would have been better. However, this test was just to see which barrel shot better not how small of groups I could get with good paint. I wouls loved to have added a few brands of higher end paint but cash flow is a very limiting factor for me right now so I had to make due with what I had. Also, If I would have had more paint I would have scratched the 60ft Excel test and started over the next day so thay conditions would have been identical but I didnt have enough balls to start over and I didnt realize how many hours this test would take when I started or I wouldnt have started it with only 2 hours of daylight left the 1st day. The next time I do the test I will try to use at least 4 brands of paint. Pegball, Marbs, and I'll try to find 2 others that are reported to shoot well with these 2 barrels.

2)I would have loved to use HPA along with CO2 but again cash flow for a tank is my road block there. I know the HPA would have been better and I'd love to see exactly HOW much better when tested side by side. Next time I WILL have a HPA to test with also.

3)I will also do the full test with the flatline next time too and probably the stock barrel also just to have solid data on how it performs compared to after market barrels.
So far now I've played 2 PB games since I got back into it and both times there was someone using a Flatline and swithed it out after a game or two for a different barrel. I am sure good paint would make a difference for them but most of the guys I have played with so far wont spend $65/case for high end paint when they can get Decent paint for $45/case that shoots good out of their other barrels. I wouldnt be surprised to find that most of the people that rave about how good the flatline is are using the correct paint for it and most of those against are using just whatever paint they can afford or are used to using in their other barrels. Unfortunaely not everyone can afford the "GOOD" stuff. I will with hold judgement on the flatine for myself until I can do some real testing with it and get in a little practice/ game time with it. Believe me, I would like nothing more than to find out the Flatline gave me good accuracy as well as distance. There is no better looking barrel for an A5 than the Flatline.

Rest assured the next time I test these out it will be a much more thorough and complete job.

[Allen Turner]

I have done numerous tests over the years and I am a big fan of the Lapco Bigshots, next time come to the shop and I will give you deal on one.

Secondly the single best shooting paint I have ever tested is the Zap Chronic. It is super heavy and super sticky. Its a bit soft so I reccomend it mostly on low pressure guns Autocockers and what not. I like Evil but the Chronic edges it out.


Flatlines: IMO provide mixed results, there are times when they do add range and they are great but they also spin the ball around and at range are not particularily accurate. But they are very paint sensative one day a paint may work great the next it just shreds.

My suggestion is that if you buy a flatline make sure you also have a good backup barrel.